Episode 145: Interview with Leisa Peterson, Author of The Mindful Millionaire

Today’s guest is Leisa Peterson, author of the new book, The Mindful Millionaire. We talk about how important our thoughts are to being successful with money and what holds people back from financial success.


Information about Leisa

The Mindful Millionaire book

Show transcript:

Hey there. I’m Dawn Starks, author of Simplify Your Financial Life and your host for the SimpleMoney Podcast, where we make personal finance simple. Welcome. This is Episode 145. Today’s interview is with Leisa Peterson, author of the new book The Mindful Millionaire. Leisa is the founder of WealthClinic, and prior to that she spent 25 years in the financial services industry.

She has also been teaching meditation and spiritual practices for over 20 years. Leisa is on a mission to help one million people elevate their financial consciousness by helping them realize their true value in the world and beyond. I hope you enjoy my interview with Leisa Peterson.

DS: Leisa Peterson, welcome to the SimpleMoney Podcast.

LP: Thank you, Dawn, I’m so happy to be here!

DS: So your book is called The Mindful Millionaire, and for a lot of people,

I would guess they would probably look at that and scoff and think that that was really a kind of a paradoxical statement. So what is the basic premise of your book?

LP: So the basic premise; yes, I have my own journey of becoming a self-made millionaire, but what I found along the way is that it isn’t about the money. I made it about the money for a long time, and what I really want readers and folks that experience my work to understand is that there’s a difference between having the money, and then feeling like

you could do that, which is a great feeling. You know, there’s great confidence that comes, but the fact that you believe in yourself and your own potential to create whatever’s important to you is far more important than the money. And when we feel really good about ourselves and our own capabilities and strengths, and we can embrace those and not feel like we’re trapped,

that that is where things get really, really interesting in life.

DS: So you just mentioned – and I know from in the book that your background in the finance industry, specifically your time as a financial advisor – you kind of hit a point where you realized this wasn’t all there was to it. And so can you talk a little bit about that and what really kind of made you cross over to this other way of thinking,

which it seems to me like was the, maybe the instigation for writing this book?

LP: Yeah. I was realizing after so many years, so now it’s almost 30 years that I’ve been working with people and their money, and along the way, both for myself and for the people I was helping, I just noticed that people had very strange behavior with money. And I avoided it, partly because I was avoiding my own relationship with money for a long time.

I just kept thinking, “Well, more is better, and then if you have more, everything is going be awesome.” And I think too I’ll just mention, going through the 2007 – 2008, you know, recession, that really had a big impact on me because by the time that happened, we had become millionaires. But we got a phone call one day – and this was before I was a financial advisor and I was a mortgage underwriter –

and our advisors said that all of our money was gone. And there was over $350,000, I think, invested in auction rate, preferred securities. And here I have an MBA in finance, I’ve worked in finance my whole life, and I was like, “How could this have even happened?” And we ended up, because the bank was sued, we ended up getting the money,

but the money was never recovered. These investments had been sold as same as cash. And it was a big wake-up call for me because I realized how vulnerable we can be. And it was part of the reason I even became a financial advisor is I was like, “Well, how can you protect yourself if this kind of thing could happen?”

But along the way, in all my ups and downs with money, I just noticed and I started asking when I became a financial advisor, I started asking my clients to tell me about what was happening behind the scenes. And I just wanted to understand these stereotypes, or these behavior patterns that they were showing me, where maybe they were like, “You take care of everything.

I don’t want any responsibility.” Like completely abdicating it. Or on the flip side, every single thing had to be like analyzed at nauseum, no matter what I said. And I’m like, “Wait! Why, why are people so different?” And so the more that happened, the more I started asking my clients, like kind of on side conversations in coffee shops and stuff,

I’m like, “Could you just tell me what’s happening? Like tell me about your backstory with money.” And that was the big turning point, because those conversations opened up this whole other world.

DS: Yes, I know. So, you know, my last 20-plus years as a financial planner, I have had the exact same experience, where there’s people all over the map in terms of how they deal with money and their trust level.

Sometimes I’m just fascinated how trusting people are that they barely know me and they’re ready to hand it all over and let me make all the decisions, other people, I mean, it may take years before you know that you’ve kind of clicked over in their mind as being trustworthy. And just the way they behave about their money. And so I’m just,

just like you, I’ve always been super fascinated at the behavioral aspects of why people do what they do with their money. Because it’s just really interesting and it’s all over the gamut. So in your book, one of the bigger concepts is this idea of scarcity and how people can get focused on that,

and really it kind of does them in. Can you talk a little bit about your ideas of scarcity and why that causes problems with people’s mindset?

LP: So I was witnessing it in the, you know, mortgage underwriting and financial advising. And then I started doing research and came across a book that wasn’t written all that long ago about scarcity. And it was like reading this book was just explaining everything,

right? So two Harvard and Princeton professors studying, and the book is called Scarcity. But when I read that I could compare it and smash it up against all of that experience. But what I could see was that when we’re trapped in this, “Not enough, not enough, not enough,” way of thinking, then we make really stupid decisions. Like one thing they cite is a loss of 13 points in IQ in those moments,

like losing a whole night’s sleep and then making a decision from that place, which I don’t know about you, but like, I do not make good decisions when I’m really, really tired. But that’s like people operating like that all the time. And so they cited many different things and it really opened my perspective to the fact that people need extra help that

they’re not getting in the traditional, you know, ways that you and I have been exposed to, the way we were trained. It was like in a certified financial planning training, for example, there’s very little discussion of the behavioral finance and a ton on the numbers, and the policy, and the legalities, and the regulations. And, while all of those things are super important,

I think I felt that void in being able to really help people in the way I wanted to, with the training I had received.

DS: Oh, I agree, because it’s really, it’s so much more than that. Because the technical side of it is one thing and, you know, it’s important to have all that knowledge and to do all the things and dot all the i’s and cross the t’s,

but it’s the relationship that matters. And if you’re going to help somebody with their money, you know, it’s really about building that relationship. And doing that, you do have to look at the behaviors, and really the best work that we can do as financial planners is to help people overcome some of those negative behaviors.

So let’s talk a little bit about beliefs and self-worth, because I like to talk about the fact that your self-worth doesn’t equal your net worth. But I think oftentimes people think that their net worth is a reflection of their, or rather it does represent their self-worth.

LP: Most definitely, you’re spot-on. And I felt this in my own life, I felt it in my family growing up,

and then I saw it with my clients, that we have a tendency – because we live in a culture that has placed money at like a really top, high level of the pyramid – we think that money equals like self-actualization. And like “smarter people have money,” all these crazy things that have just gone and gotten attached. And so we have decided, not just with money,

but with a whole bunch of other things, like if we’re good at relationships, then we’re more worthy as a human being, right? Or if we have more money, or if we have a better job, or if we live in a more expensive house, or we live in a certain neighborhood. Like, we’ve just been bombarded by these beliefs, both through the media,

through the TV shows that we’ve probably grown up with, through, you know, radio, through school system, like it’s crazy how many inputs come in to create a belief system that has caused us to think that money is going to contribute to our self-worth. And it is, it goes so deep, I am not going to say that it’s easy to get rid of that idea.

I just know it’s not true. And so I think that gets infused in my writing and in the things I teach to, like, remind people that even though everybody’s acting a certain way, doesn’t mean it’s true.

DS: Definitely, definitely. And so I think, you know, all those messages, we are getting bombarded from all sides. You know, “you need to be attractive and rich,

and that equals success in this society.” And that’s so messed up! And it’s just, you know, and that’s what the kids are, you know, that’s what they’re seeing everywhere. They’re seeing it all over the internet, they’re seeing it all over the TV and in movies. And it’s just, it’s really, it makes the work harder.

It makes it harder to sort of dig past all of that.

LP: The one thing, like there’s a couple of things that come to mind; I have a teenager and then a daughter in her early twenties, and my daughter has been easier to teach about these things. My son has been very influenced, and it may just be the age or the time, but like something as simple as having a thousand dollar phone.

Like, you think of us growing up in the world that we were in, and like – well first of all, we didn’t have phones, you know, portable phones – but the idea that a child who’s 10 or 11 years old may be given a thousand dollar phone and have all that responsibility that goes with it. And then if something happens,

no big deal, we have insurance. Like it’s just mind boggling. But the other thing that sticks out in my head about these messages that are being reinforced at a very young age… There’s a classic ad – and every once in a while I’ll still come across it, but like in a magazine, when we used to read magazines – where you’d see a woman’s hand and you’d see this big diamond, and

the ad would basically say the only way you know that he loves you, is the size of that diamond! You know, like we are totally messed up. Like they’ve not been as blatant lately, but let’s be clear, that message has been reinforced extensively in our society.

DS: Oh, definitely. Definitely. That’s one of my big, that’s one of my biggest soapbox topics actually, is the

impact of the media of all sorts on our psyches. So, tell me a little bit about what you think the biggest obstacles are, that people have, that get in the way of being healthy with their money.

LP: So self-worth is a big one, also stigma. So, you know, for me, I grew up in a lower-middle-class home, in a more-middle class neighborhood,

so there was a lot of stigma in my mind that we weren’t as good as other people. And that, because my parents were different, people didn’t want to play with us. So like, there’s just these messages being reinforced all the time. But your question – return me back to that, because there’s a few different angles I want to approach it from.

DS: Yeah, I was asking about the, what are the biggest obstacles that you see that people have that get in their way of being healthy? So we talked about self-worth, and so what, you know, what other obstacles do people have that keep them… Because I think where you’re going with your message in this book –

which is, it’s fabulous, by the way, I will recommend it to everybody – is that so much of being successful with our money is in our head. So much of it is in our head. And it’s really important that you can, you can work like a dog for your entire career and never be successful with your money because you sabotage yourself because of the things you think about.

LP: Yeah. Thank you so much. So yes, the things that we think about ourselves are what we have an uncanny way of bringing into reality, again and again. So a lot of times my work is trying to understand how does this person think about themselves? How do they think about their relationship with money? And I mean, if the first thing that somebody says, right, to us,

you and I both, is “I’m really bad with money,” we’re going to automatically know that they’ve got a belief system that’s dictating their life, that they’re bad with it. And as long as that continues, we’re not going to be able to change anything. So the belief has to be the thing that changes first, and there may be exercises, there may be things that they need to start to do,

starting with the conversation in their head. Because it’s actually sabotaging all kinds of things that they do. And even something as simple as, like, someone walks in the door and says, “I’m not a saver. You know, I can’t save money,” it’s like, well, it’s really funny because even if you were to save a dollar a day in a jar that you see every day that you wake up to,

or it sits on your desk and you put that dollar in, like all of a sudden, you’re like, “You’re a saver!” You know, it’s crazy because our thoughts really do dictate how we think about ourselves. And so there are a gazillion ways we can change the conversation, the problem is people don’t realize that they can actually change those things. And that they’re not truth.

DS: Oh yeah. Well, and partly it’s because I think if you tell yourself something for so long, then it’s so ingrained in your psyche that it’s become your truth. And it’s no longer just a fleeting belief about yourself, I mean it is like one of your deep, dark truths. And so overcoming that, by trying to replace it with more positive language and a more positive mindset

is super challenging.

LP: It really is. The other one that it shows up for a lot of people, especially women, is chronic under-earning. And just believing that you are always going to be underpaid for your efforts. Like, this is, I actually feel like this belief system is more responsible for the pay-gap than anything else. That we actually believe in it,

or those messages have come in, and, like, I’ve never been one of those people, like, I’ve always really like valued pay. And I wasn’t underpaid, or when I found out I was paid less than my peers, like, I rectified it fast. So I know that it’s just a way of thinking. And that if you don’t believe it’s possible,

it’s going to be really tough to change it. And so women actually have to be really proactive in understanding that it’s not just happening to you, you’re actually part of the problem. Because as long as you believe it and accept it, you’re probably not going to change it as fast as you could. Does that make sense?

DS: Oh, totally. And I think that,

relatedly, that, you know, women who are more introverted and maybe not as assertive about what they need, are going to take that message in maybe even deeper that, “Oh, well, I must not be worth it then. If I’m not being paid as much as, you know, Joe here,

then I must not be worth it.” And so then they internalize that and they are less likely to say, “Hey, wait a minute. This isn’t fair,” and speak up for themselves.

LP: Totally. And it’s funny because, it’s not that the problem isn’t happening, you know, when I worked in the corporate world, I’ll be the first to say,

I never paid for a coach. I didn’t understand the value of coaching. I didn’t get it. Not like, because it was expensive, and I was used to my company paying for everything for me, right? That’s the way you get sometimes, (laughs) when you work for the corporate world in the executive positions! But since I’ve come out and I’ve been working with coaches –

my being a coach, and then paying coaches – I’ve learned that, like, if a woman were to understand that this was something happening in her life, and literally invested a few thousand dollars in understanding the pattern, changing the pattern, it will never be something that happens again for them. Like, it can be changed so fast. And it’s just,

you’ve got to realize that investing a little bit of money could pay off in hundreds of thousands of dollars over the course of your lifetime, by just changing this belief system, and making sure that you understand your value. And when I say that, I don’t mean, like, “Oh it really is in the workplace.” It’s about how much value are you creating?

And are you being compensated for that value that you’re creating?

DS: Yeah. And you bring up a good point, because earlier we were talking about how those messages that come to us throughout our – oftentimes throughout our youth and we carry that into our adult life – those can be really difficult to overcome. But there are some things that if somebody can just point it out to you and you say,

“Oh, okay, wow. I didn’t realize I was thinking that way, or thinking in those terms.” And so people can make some changes to their mindset overnight just by, like the light bulb going on.

LP: Totally! Like, mind-blowing, how fast things can happen. And I think that’s why podcasts have taken off, right? Or different ways,

YouTube channels, like we can have these big breakthroughs just by hearing the right message at the right time.

DS: I think so, too. So tell me about how our relationship with money can impact other areas of our lives, and our relationships with others, because that was one of the most fascinating parts of your book for me.

LP: Yeah, it’s huge.

So if we realized too that a lot of the challenges we’re having with money later in life started early in life, and have a lot to do with our parental relationships or our caregiver relationships, it probably puts it into even greater context what I’m about to share. And that is that when we live our lives with these limited senses of ourselves, and the beliefs are affecting us,

those don’t show up just with money, but they also show up in our partner relationship, and our friend relationships, and… My husband and I have been together for over 30 years, and I have witnessed this work, you know, that we both have very similar beliefs about being more frugal, more careful with our money. But when it comes to something like starting a business or taking risks on, like we’re really,

really different. And some of the biggest arguments and difficulties come, right, from the areas that we’re really different. And so what I’ve had to do, and he has too, is that the more we understand ourselves and the more we understand our patterns and perhaps that baggage, right, of living in scarcity when we were little or watching our parents fight, and then having struggles,

like, the more we understand what happened to us and the more we healed it, we’ve forgiven our parents, we’ve forgiven ourselves, the easier it is for us to show up in a very healthy state of, like, communication, and sharing, and being, like, “You know what? I know,” you know, I might say this to my husband, like, “I know you’re never going to understand what it was like to grow up in my home.

I get that. But I’m really, really sensitive about this thing that we’re talking about here. It’s not going to necessarily make sense to you, but I need you to lean in and help me because it’s a really painful topic.” And then all of a sudden he’s like, “Oh my gosh, I want to help you!” Rather than what it could have been,

which is, you know, fight. A fight because that’s what we do, we fight when we’re coming from these places of deep wounding. And so, you know, we go into this work or many people go into it thinking, “Oh, I’m going to improve my relationship with money.” And then my clients are like, “Well, it improved everything! (laughs) You know,

my relationships, my health, my kids,” like, it’s pretty fun.

DS: Yeah. I think that, I think that maybe an immediate reaction to somebody who would look at your work or others’ and say, “Oh, you’re so focused on money. And that’s so shallow.” But what you were just saying is that, you know,

this relationship that we have with money is more than just, it’s not about greed. It’s not about, at its core, it’s not really about having or not having the money, but having that relationship and making sure that relationship is healthy is so analogous to the other things in our life, like you were just describing.

LP: Yeah. It’s so much fun. I mean, life becomes fun, especially like I talk about this in the book where I kind of have two different audiences. Some people have really struggled with money and they haven’t been able to save or invest as much as they would like to. And that’s a source of pain. Other people who come to my work have made a lot, just like I have,

but they worry about it all the time. Or they know that it’s caused such pain in their relationships with their family or something like that. And it’s amazing because, at the end of the day, the challenges actually come from the same place, but they’ve just manifested in very different ways. And I think that’s also maybe surprising, because we think, if we’re on one side or the other,

we have like a way of thinking about the other people, that they’re really different than us. But what I’ve seen is literally it doesn’t matter about the money. It matters about the stories that are wrapped up inside of it.

DS: Exactly. And people think that, “Well, once I have a lot of money, I won’t have problems anymore.” And that’s, you know,

that’s not correct thinking. I like to say “more money, more problems,” or “more money, different problems” because you might not have, it might be the same problems as you had before, and you might just have more of them. Because things just get intensified, you know, the larger the situation gets. So I want to know how you came about deciding that “I have to get this work that I’m doing out in the world,” and why you wrote this book.

LP: So, part of me just wants to say I’m a little bit crazy, possessed with the passion, and just like, once you’re onto something and you’re like, “Nobody’s ever said it this way,” that in and of itself is important. But I definitely saw so many people struggling and because I’ve moved through it in my own life, I knew it was possible to change the conversation.

And, on the other side, when I started doing this work, after I left my advising practice, it took a few years to hit my stride of being able to create new concepts that were presenting things from a different angle than maybe anybody had ever done before. But I started doing these meditations that were oriented around the chakra system, which is kind of my own,

you know, framework that I use to try and explain what’s going on under the surface, and these meditations that I gave out to hundreds and hundreds of people, people just started coming back to me and saying, “I don’t know what’s inside of that meditation, but things are changing for me.” And I had been teaching meditation for, like, 16 years before that.

So it wasn’t, like, new to me. I knew the power of meditation, but bringing the money and the understanding of scarcity and the understanding of prosperity into a meditation with all that experience was, like, infused with something. And when it started to have a big impact in people’s lives, then I was like, “Oh my gosh, I need to learn how to write better!” (laughs)

That was really because I wasn’t a great writer and I’m like, “Oh, there’s a book here, you know, but who knows if I’ll ever be able to do it!” That is literally how I approached it. Like I was a terrible writer. And so it’s really fun when people say, “Oh, you’re such a great writer (laughs) now!”

DS: That’s ok! That’s what I tell my daughter all the time.

How do you get better at something you think you’re bad at? You just practice. You just have to practise. It takes time.

LP: Yup. Some of these beliefs are hard to fall, but I mastered that one too.

DS: Yup, exactly. And, so tell me some, give me some examples of some clients that you’ve worked with and what issues they came to you with, and what were their struggles, and how did working through this framework, that you outlined in the book, how did that get them to kind of cross over the bridge into a better mindset?

LP: Beautiful. So first of all, I want to be clear that I am not a therapist or psychologist, nor do

I present myself that way. I have taken a very spiritual direction with these teachings. Interesting enough, about 20 to 30 percent of my clients are actually PhD-level psychologists who come to me to help them. So that has given me great validation because I was really scared to be, like, not wanting to cross that line. But I just wanted to say that because,

you know, when I go in and work with folks, and the situation that came to mind as you’re asking this question is a woman, a PhD-level psychologist who has a coaching business actually in the wealth management space, interesting enough. So she helps people do some of this work, especially at this high level with, like, very, like, inheritors and all the stuff that goes on behind the scenes.

Well, in her situation, an inheritor who had grown up in a home where her father was very, very powerful. And as a result of that, there was a diminishing of her own power. So even though she had gone on to get incredible levels of education, had her own business, was working with, like, the upper echelon, you know,

in our class system in the United States, still, there was not this understanding of her value and the contributions that she was making in her business. And so by identifying the fact that there had been patterns started early in life that said that she wasn’t supposed to be the most powerful person in the room, that that was for her father to be, when that started kind of discombobulating, and disintegrating, and being questioned, and reviewed, and healed, and forgiven, and all kinds of other good stuff,

the person who emerged through that process was able to step into her practice and operate at a completely different level. Before it had come from proving energy; “I have to prove that I can do this. I have to prove that I’m capable.” When the work was done, there was no need to prove in that way ever again. And that changed the people that started coming to her,

the struggles of some of the people that wanted to work with her. Like, sometimes we attract people that are really struggling as our clients, people might relate if they’ve got their business, but as we heal these things, it’s like, all of a sudden we get people that are just easy to help and serve and be in great reciprocity with.

And so that’s the kind of thing that happens on a regular basis.

DS: And what would you say to the people in our society, particularly who are looking for the quick-fix? So there’s, you know, there’s so much of this idea that, “Oh, well, I’m just going to go online and find the answer. I’m just going to go and,

you know, press a button or read a book, or do, you know, such and such, and I’m going to, and that’s going to create the change for me.” And so much of this kind of work just doesn’t work that way. I mean it really does require some time and some real

reflection. So, how do you kind of overcome that idea that people get frustrated because it’s not happening right now?

LP: Yeah. Well, I think there’s a whole subculture, right? I’m in Sedona, Arizona, there’s a lot of metaphysical stuff that goes on there. There’s a lot of, like, people come there and want all their problems to go away in a two-day vacation kind of thing.

So like, I’m really familiar with this. Having been on a 21-year journey, just with the mindset stuff alone, not to mention 30 years in finance, I’m really clear that you can have some huge quick breakthroughs, and this would be more at the one-on-one level, just because each situation is so unique, but you can have some big breakthroughs. And that will seem magical and awesome at the time.

But the real work comes into, “Now, what are you going to do with it?” And that may take years of, like, reinforcing what you’ve seen and witnessed, but now you’re putting it into your daily life. You’re putting it into your career. You’re working on it in your relationship with your spouse or with your children. And I think you’re right. Like,

it’s not always easy to keep people’s attention. In the book I say right away, “This isn’t a quick fix. This is something that could take a while, but you’re going to know if you need it pretty fast. You’re going to know if it’s helping you pretty fast. But if you just think that you could pop in, do a little bit of work,

and that’s probably not doing anyone any justice.” And I always like to say, “Just like, parenting, imagine this, like, as a parent, you say, ‘Oh, I’m a good parent.’ And you’re done, like, that’s it, you’re a good parent? Like, it doesn’t work that way.” Just like with money,

you can’t be, like, “I’ve done my money work,” and you’re done. Like, you’ll probably be doing it until the day you take your last breath, just like parenting. If you’re fortunate to outlive your children, you will still be learning how to be a parent until that last breath.

DS: So now I’m curious about kind of the demographics that you’ve seen with your work.

Is it more women that seek out this kind of work, because they realize they have these obstacles in their mind? Or do you see it kind of evenly distributed between men and women? And then, relatedly, what age groups? Is it only people who have sort of hit their stride in their careers, or do you see people kind of earlier in their life reaching out and wanting

to mend their mind?

LP: So, the inspiring thing is I’ve had people still be in high school reaching out, all the way to people in their late-sixties, let’s say, who are interested in the work and probably older than that, even reading the book. But yes, women probably 40 to, like, 60 are more interested, perhaps because of some of the bias and conditioning that we in particular received.

I’m 53, there is a lot of my inner-mining that can happen to substantially improve the life that we’re living and how we think about ourselves. And so men probably represent 15 to 20 percent of the people who come to my work and when they love it, like, they love it. They don’t mind being, like, maybe one of a handful of guys hanging out and we cheer them on.

But by no means, do I think that it’s just a woman issue. In fact, the guys have huge breakthroughs. They are really quick to see what’s going on. And a lot of them have daughters and wives too, and they become better guiders of some of the challenges. Because I think that it’s hard to be a father watching a daughter struggle,

for example, and not hit her stride financially. And you’re like, you know they’re capable of so much more, but you don’t know how to help. And so, yeah, I’ve just witnessed a lot of cool things.

DS: My observation over the years in my practice has been that the generations are different. I mean,

you know, there’s stereotypes about the various generations, but I have noticed from the very early days – so I’ve been in practice as a financial planner for over 20 years – and back then at the very beginning, a lot of the women who came in as part of a couple, they were used to deferring. They were used to deferring to their spouse and they were raised to not be,

you know, assertive and taking care of their own financial needs. They were raised and were cared for, and then married and were cared for. And so now I’m seeing such a fabulous shift because the, I think the younger generation of women have gotten over that and that there’s this change in our society.

I mean, not wholesale. I mean, you still see it in pockets, but I have been so fascinated with the change I’ve seen in the generations. And it’s gratifying to me, because that’s been my work, you know, in my life, is helping women become more empowered with their money so that they don’t get taken advantage of.

LP: Yeah. I love it. My daughter, you know, growing up with me and having a certain level of financial stability, you know, in our home, she has partnered up and she’s living with her boyfriend, and he didn’t come from that kind of home. And so it’s just fascinating to watch how she’s changing his behavior.

Like he wasn’t saving any money and now they’re saving everything. And it hasn’t been something that, like, he’s excited about it, she’s modeling these beautiful qualities for him and he’s comfortable with letting her, you know, be that person. And so I just totally delight in the fact that, like, when we’re financially well, we create a ripple of financial wellness all around ourselves.

DS: Yeah, well it’s nice that her boyfriend is not intimidated by that. Or, you know, in some way, demascul…?

LP: Yeah.

DS: I’ve lost the word there, but you know, demasculated, you know, he doesn’t think less of himself because, “Oh, my girlfriend’s smarter than me about money.” Where I think, you know, maybe generations ago that would have been a problem.

LP: Yeah, totally not the case. He’s like, “Oh, I love it. Show me, help me.”

DS: That’s awesome. Excellent. Good for her. Well, Leisa, tell us a little bit about where, folks who are interested in your work, where can they find out more information about you and about the book The Mindful Millionaire,

and also maybe what you’re working on now.

LP: Thank you. So, mindfulmillionairebook.com was set up to provide more information about the book, and also that’s where a podcast that I set up around these topics is also featured. And the freebies and other things that we created that go along with the book. And wealthclinic.com has been the website that I run my business from.

That also has another podcast that, it’s funny, if you listen to Art of Abundance, so that’s my first podcast, you’ll see these elements of what I was playing with, and learning, and experimenting with as I was trying to pull all the pieces for the framework together. But, what I have realized, especially in the time of COVID, is I’ve been a business coach since I left the financial advising, and with COVID and all of these people pivoting and realizing that they need to take maybe a therapy business, or a coaching business that was more brick and mortar, onto the internet,

there’s this huge need because in the past six years, I’ve learned, and I spent a lot of money, not well-spent, trying to learn how to move into this new economy. And so now I love teaching people how to do that. And so I’m offering a program starting in the fall that I’m bringing several of my clients together who have been doing this work for several years with me,

but we’re all focused on helping people have more success in their business, because if you make more money, you’re going to have more money to invest.

DS: That’s right. And more to give back and to do good in the world, so yeah, wonderful. Well, it’s been such a pleasure. This is, it was a really interesting book,

and I agree with what you said before, that no one out there is talking about this, at least not that I’ve seen and I’ve read a lot of personal finance books. And so I just, I really appreciated the angle that you came at here, and it was very well-researched and I think it’s going to help a lot of people.

LP: Thank you so much, that means a lot to me. I love that you’ve been serving this market for so many years. It’s so beautiful. And I couldn’t, back when I was doing advising, it wasn’t easy to find women doing what you’re doing. And so I honor and respect that you went through all the obstacles and the things that I’m sure you had to go to,

you know, building your business, so thank you for that.

DS: Oh, you’re welcome. And that is a subject for another day. Well, great, Leisa, it’s been so much fun and I hope we can do it again sometime.

LP: Thank you.

DS: Alright, take care. If you enjoy the SimpleMoney Podcast, please be sure to subscribe and leave us a review.

You can support the SimpleMoney Podcast by becoming a patron. Visit patreon.com/simplemoney. That’s p-a-t-r-e-o-n.com/simplemoney. Find more great information about the blog, podcast, courses and my book by visiting simplemoneypro.com. My book, Simplify Your Financial Life, is available for purchase online or you can ask your local bookseller or library to order it.

See you next time.



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